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	<title>Comments for Here I Stand</title>
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		<title>Comment on Wittenburg Wednesday:  Is Calvinism on the Rise? by Dan Drew</title>
		<link>http://kevinjthompson.wordpress.com/2008/03/26/wittenburg-wednesday-is-calvinism-on-the-rise/#comment-2550</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Drew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 20:57:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kevinjthompson.wordpress.com/?p=233#comment-2550</guid>
		<description>All this relatively recent election-trendy chit-chat humors me.  Why do people flock to a given belief only when the herd migrates in a given direction?  Why can&#039;t people use their own reasoning to determine what they believe instead of following what some momentary mega-church all-star wrote/spake?  I&#039;m a 1970 Bob Jones University graduate (accounting/English), so I&#039;m not exactly new to either this discussion, or fundamentalism/evangelicalism.  In fact, when I was at Jones, evangelicalism was not equivalent to fundamentalism, as it is today; the two had nothing to do with each other (you were expelled for attending a Graham crusade meeting, the Southern Baptist Convention was likewise considered off-limits, the Moody Bible Institutes/etc. were considered apostate, etc.).  I can recite you names of students who were expelled from Jones 1969-1970 for debating Calvinism versus Arminianism.  Why was the subject of election irrelevant...yea off-limits...back then, but today is de rigueur in-vogue?  This trend-pattern reminds me of Mormonism: only the church leader is allowed an occasional epiphany...let the leader have his epiphany and then it becomes the law/standard for the rest of you to follow.  I&#039;ve read electionists who state that: 1) man has absolutely nothing to do with the salvation process; God is in control and does it all; 2) that the election list was drawn up before the foundation of the world; 3) that electionism demonstrates God&#039;s love; 4) that Christ didn&#039;t die for all of mankind; instead, Christ died only for the elect.  Yet let a person die who isn&#039;t considered a Christian, and these electionists suddenly abandon electionism, jump ship, and become the biggest proponents of free will that you ever saw; suddenly, it was that non-Christian&#039;s fault for not accepting Christ (really?...didn&#039;t you just say that man had nothing at all to do with the salvation process?  And what if that non-Christian wasn&#039;t on that pre-world elect list; could that non-Christian somehow override the elect list?...hmmm).  You&#039;ll notice that electionism talks only about the &quot;elect&quot; but does not seem comfortable talking about the &quot;non-elect.&quot;  Watch this: God creates all humans, right?  There is only a heaven and a hell (that is, there are no purgatory or limbo), right?  Suppose God creates 1,000 persons, &quot;elects&quot; 300 of them to heaven, please tell me what God plans to do with the remaining 700 if God doesn&#039;t likewise predestine the 700 to hell.  And how does the act of predestining even one soul to hell qualify any entity to be associated with the concept of &quot;love&quot;?   And...tell me what the 700 could possibly do to override their failing to be on the &quot;elect&quot; list.  Electionism lacks the guts to state that God predestines the non-elect to hell; therefore another doctrine must do the dirty work of calling this spade a spade, and this other doctrine is called &quot;double predestination,&quot; which R. C. Sproul and other electionists claim to be heresy.  I guess R. C. Sproul thinks it&#039;s fine to say that 10 plus 10 equals 20, but it&#039;s not cool to state that 20 less 10 equals 10.  Parallel: if I invite 25 people to play softball Saturday AM at the park, mine is the only game in town, I hold sovereignty over the choice of who gets to play, then...based upon a pre-determined list of players I drew up the night before...I announce my choice of the two 9-member teams&#039; players for a total of 18 players, thus I&#039;ve &quot;elected&quot; the 18 players, right?  Tell me what the remaining 7 invitees can possibly do in order to play.  Tell me what the 7 must do to override my choice.  Who is at fault for the 7 not getting to play?  Supposing I wanted to embrace &quot;reform theology&quot; beginning tomorrow morning at 7 AM, someone please tell me: 1) what I would have to stop believing, and 2) what I would have to start believing.  I have discovered a pattern, whenever I discuss electionism with Christians: 1) they are the ones who write the books and preach the sermons and hold the month-long sermon series in favor of electionism/&quot;reform theology,&quot; 2) they verbally dance a few verbal/written rounds with me, 3) then when they are forced to accept what they claim they believe, it is too stark for them to accept, so they jump ship and embrace free will/&quot;whosoever will&quot;/etc. (discarding electionism in the process) so as to avoid having to blame God for predestining some people to hell, and then they sign off with 4) &quot;...Dan, these are just doctrinal positions, they&#039;re of little significance, we shouldn&#039;t get sidetracked arguing, instead we should be out winning others to Christ...&quot;  Say whut?...winning others to Christ?  Didn&#039;t you just say that there&#039;s this &quot;elect list&quot; drawn up pre-world, didn&#039;t you just say that man has absolutely nothing to do with the salvation process, didn&#039;t you just say that only the elect reach heaven and those elect are comprised only of those whom God chose to download His grace?  And didn&#039;t you just say that &quot;...Man doesn&#039;t come to God; God came to man...&quot;?  And finally...wasn&#039;t it you who initiated the discussion of this subject by your writing those books, sermons, tape/CD series on the &quot;controversial&quot; subject of electionism that you now want me to cease talking about?  Who started the relatively recent trendiness of electionism?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All this relatively recent election-trendy chit-chat humors me.  Why do people flock to a given belief only when the herd migrates in a given direction?  Why can&#8217;t people use their own reasoning to determine what they believe instead of following what some momentary mega-church all-star wrote/spake?  I&#8217;m a 1970 Bob Jones University graduate (accounting/English), so I&#8217;m not exactly new to either this discussion, or fundamentalism/evangelicalism.  In fact, when I was at Jones, evangelicalism was not equivalent to fundamentalism, as it is today; the two had nothing to do with each other (you were expelled for attending a Graham crusade meeting, the Southern Baptist Convention was likewise considered off-limits, the Moody Bible Institutes/etc. were considered apostate, etc.).  I can recite you names of students who were expelled from Jones 1969-1970 for debating Calvinism versus Arminianism.  Why was the subject of election irrelevant&#8230;yea off-limits&#8230;back then, but today is de rigueur in-vogue?  This trend-pattern reminds me of Mormonism: only the church leader is allowed an occasional epiphany&#8230;let the leader have his epiphany and then it becomes the law/standard for the rest of you to follow.  I&#8217;ve read electionists who state that: 1) man has absolutely nothing to do with the salvation process; God is in control and does it all; 2) that the election list was drawn up before the foundation of the world; 3) that electionism demonstrates God&#8217;s love; 4) that Christ didn&#8217;t die for all of mankind; instead, Christ died only for the elect.  Yet let a person die who isn&#8217;t considered a Christian, and these electionists suddenly abandon electionism, jump ship, and become the biggest proponents of free will that you ever saw; suddenly, it was that non-Christian&#8217;s fault for not accepting Christ (really?&#8230;didn&#8217;t you just say that man had nothing at all to do with the salvation process?  And what if that non-Christian wasn&#8217;t on that pre-world elect list; could that non-Christian somehow override the elect list?&#8230;hmmm).  You&#8217;ll notice that electionism talks only about the &#8220;elect&#8221; but does not seem comfortable talking about the &#8220;non-elect.&#8221;  Watch this: God creates all humans, right?  There is only a heaven and a hell (that is, there are no purgatory or limbo), right?  Suppose God creates 1,000 persons, &#8220;elects&#8221; 300 of them to heaven, please tell me what God plans to do with the remaining 700 if God doesn&#8217;t likewise predestine the 700 to hell.  And how does the act of predestining even one soul to hell qualify any entity to be associated with the concept of &#8220;love&#8221;?   And&#8230;tell me what the 700 could possibly do to override their failing to be on the &#8220;elect&#8221; list.  Electionism lacks the guts to state that God predestines the non-elect to hell; therefore another doctrine must do the dirty work of calling this spade a spade, and this other doctrine is called &#8220;double predestination,&#8221; which R. C. Sproul and other electionists claim to be heresy.  I guess R. C. Sproul thinks it&#8217;s fine to say that 10 plus 10 equals 20, but it&#8217;s not cool to state that 20 less 10 equals 10.  Parallel: if I invite 25 people to play softball Saturday AM at the park, mine is the only game in town, I hold sovereignty over the choice of who gets to play, then&#8230;based upon a pre-determined list of players I drew up the night before&#8230;I announce my choice of the two 9-member teams&#8217; players for a total of 18 players, thus I&#8217;ve &#8220;elected&#8221; the 18 players, right?  Tell me what the remaining 7 invitees can possibly do in order to play.  Tell me what the 7 must do to override my choice.  Who is at fault for the 7 not getting to play?  Supposing I wanted to embrace &#8220;reform theology&#8221; beginning tomorrow morning at 7 AM, someone please tell me: 1) what I would have to stop believing, and 2) what I would have to start believing.  I have discovered a pattern, whenever I discuss electionism with Christians: 1) they are the ones who write the books and preach the sermons and hold the month-long sermon series in favor of electionism/&#8221;reform theology,&#8221; 2) they verbally dance a few verbal/written rounds with me, 3) then when they are forced to accept what they claim they believe, it is too stark for them to accept, so they jump ship and embrace free will/&#8221;whosoever will&#8221;/etc. (discarding electionism in the process) so as to avoid having to blame God for predestining some people to hell, and then they sign off with 4) &#8220;&#8230;Dan, these are just doctrinal positions, they&#8217;re of little significance, we shouldn&#8217;t get sidetracked arguing, instead we should be out winning others to Christ&#8230;&#8221;  Say whut?&#8230;winning others to Christ?  Didn&#8217;t you just say that there&#8217;s this &#8220;elect list&#8221; drawn up pre-world, didn&#8217;t you just say that man has absolutely nothing to do with the salvation process, didn&#8217;t you just say that only the elect reach heaven and those elect are comprised only of those whom God chose to download His grace?  And didn&#8217;t you just say that &#8220;&#8230;Man doesn&#8217;t come to God; God came to man&#8230;&#8221;?  And finally&#8230;wasn&#8217;t it you who initiated the discussion of this subject by your writing those books, sermons, tape/CD series on the &#8220;controversial&#8221; subject of electionism that you now want me to cease talking about?  Who started the relatively recent trendiness of electionism?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Death of a Dispensationalist by Jane</title>
		<link>http://kevinjthompson.wordpress.com/2009/11/25/death-of-a-dispensationalist/#comment-2548</link>
		<dc:creator>Jane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 00:52:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kevinjthompson.wordpress.com/?p=1269#comment-2548</guid>
		<description>[I saw this web article a short time ago. Enjoy! - - - Jane]

 ROOTS OF (WARLIKE) CHRISTIAN ZIONISM
         (or, It&#039;s the Rapture, Stupid !)

              by Dave MacPherson

    First, let&#039;s get something straight. Many conservative
evangelicals in America are not longing for the &quot;world&#039;s end&quot; or
&quot;judgment day&quot; or a &quot;millennium&quot; or an &quot;antichrist&quot; or even the
&quot;second coming.&quot;
    Although these phrases are in their theology books, the same
books emphasize what they are waiting (and would almost die) for:
the &quot;any-moment pretribulation rapture&quot; which is expected several
years ahead of the second coming and most assuredly BEFORE a future
&quot;great tribulation&quot;!
    Hal Lindsey, the big rapture guru of the late 20th century,
ended his bestselling book &quot;The Late Great Planet Earth&quot; with the
word &quot;MARANATHA&quot; which pretribulation rapturists know is a code
word for their rapture. And the same literal removal from earth at
any moment lurks in Lindsey&#039;s other writings.
   Tim LaHaye, the current rapture tycoon whose &quot;Left Behind&quot;
bonanza has left even Lindsey behind, knows how to milk the
rapturized masses. After his 1992 pro-rapture book &quot;No Fear of the
Storm&quot; was published, it was revealed that he had sloppily omitted
48 words when airing a brief 19th century document - hardly good
publicity! After sales slowed down, it was re-issued as &quot;Rapture
Under Attack&quot; (with the same 48 missing words) and appeared to the
public to be a new book. But not even the title change seemed to
help things, and merchandiser LaHaye knew it was time to come up
with some other titles that could further his rapture obsession.
    And Jerry Falwell never seems to miss an opportunity, when
preaching, to remind his audience that he most certainly believes
in the &quot;pretribulational rapture&quot; view.
    I can almost believe that the middle name of many Christian
Right leaders is &quot;Rapture&quot;!
    When checking pre-19th century prophetic development, one
finds that &quot;dispensational&quot; thinking as well as Christian Zionistic
roots had been in existence long before the emergence of
pretribulation rapturism. Even the prophetic word &quot;rapture&quot; had
been in print well before the 19th century - but always in
reference to only an after-the-tribulation coming and never to a
pretribulation coming.
    Many are still unaware that the pretrib rapture idea was first
publicly aired in the fall of 1830 in &quot;The Morning Watch&quot;
(hereafter: TMW), a little-known quarterly journal published by the
Irvingites (followers of famed London preacher Edward Irving) from
1829 to 1833 in Britain. Not only was this innovative publication
years ahead of John Darby and his Plymouth Brethren colleagues,
rapturally speaking, but in it we find shocking militancy that can
be observed today in Christian Zionist preachers like John Hagee
and Jerry Falwell.
    As early as the September 1830 issue of TMW (pp. 510-514) a
writer declared that only worthy Christians (which he labeled
&quot;Philadelphia&quot;) would be raptured before &quot;the great tribulation&quot;
and less worthy ones (labeled &quot;Laodicea&quot;) would be left on earth.
    The September 1832 issue of the same journal (pp. 6-7) saw
&quot;Jews&quot; as well as the less worthy Christians left behind.
    But the March 1833 issue (p. 147) said that only &quot;the Jews&quot;
would be excluded from the rapture.
    So within a short period of time the Irvingites, while
following the same Scriptures, revealed their innate
anti-Jewishness by switching from a &quot;church/church&quot; dichotomy to a
&quot;church/Israel&quot; dichotomy after convincing themselves that only
&quot;the Jews&quot; would deserve a future tribulation!
    After their adoption of an escapist view that no organized
church had ever taught before 1830, the same early pretrib
rapturists, feeling superior, began exhibiting some vices that
often come to powerless persons who suddenly obtain power - vices
like pride, hatred and persecution of others, playing God, and so
on.
    Sounding like Hagee and other warlike warmongers, TMW
expressed even more delusional, rapture-inspired fantasies:
    The September 1830 issue (p. 514), looking ahead to the hoped
for &quot;great escape,&quot; declared that the raptured believers would then
collectively become &quot;the victorious ministerer of the great
tribulation&quot; upon those left behind!
    In March of 1832 the same Irvingite journal (p. 3) taught that
the &quot;vials&quot; of wrath in the book of Revelation &quot;shall be poured out
by the risen [raptured] saints&quot;!
    And TMW in September 1832 (p. 27) went even further and
announced that the collective group of raptured ones will &quot;wield
the thunders of its power against the dragon [Satan] and his
angels, and cast them down from heaven&quot;!
    Note that these fanatics were more than willing to be the
&quot;chosen ones&quot; to pour out tribulation and wrath on those not worthy
to be &quot;chosen&quot;: the Jews.
    (I&#039;m glad to report that Southeastern Baptist Theological
Seminary in North Carolina is now the only North American
institution that contains a complete set of every issue of &quot;The
Morning Watch.&quot; I recently gave SEBTS my 35-year collection of rare
material including those issues and Robert Norton&#039;s valuable 1861
book.)
    We&#039;ve just had a glimpse of vengeful and power-crazy
fanaticism within the very earliest pretrib rapture group. But
where in the Bible did those deluded Britishers find support for
such &quot;rapture rage&quot;? And where are the followers of Christ
commanded to pick up a sword and conquer or convert non-believers
with it - or even support such sword-bearers? Why have so many
Christian Zionists, who seemingly give more attention to
governments than to their Gospel, turned the Great Commission into
the Great Commotion?
    Many of the above historical details are in my 300-page book
&quot;The Rapture Plot,&quot; the most complete and documented history of the
176-year-old pretribulation rapture merchandised today by Hagee,
LaHaye, Falwell, Lindsey, Swaggart, Van Impe etc. for their pet
agendas - an escapist view never taught by any church for 1800
years! If you don&#039;t have time for my book, I invite you to read my
internet items including &quot;Pretrib Rapture Diehards,&quot; &quot;Deceiving and
Being Deceived,&quot; &quot;Famous Rapture Watchers,&quot; &quot;Thomas Ice
(Bloopers),&quot; &quot;Appendix F: Thou Shalt Not Steal,&quot; &quot;The Rapture Index
(Mad Theology),&quot; &quot;Pretrib Hypocrisy,&quot; and &quot;Pretrib Rapture Dishonesty.&quot;   
BTW, my book &quot;The Rapture Plot&quot; is available at online bookstores. 
    Do Hagee and his fellow preachers really love Jewish persons
as much as they say they do? Then why do they pervert Scripture to
try to get themselves raptured off earth before their future and
final &quot;tribulation&quot; instead of wanting to remain on earth during
that period to minister love to ALL of earth&#039;s citizens?
    Hagee stated on July 19, 2006 that &quot;The United States must
join Israel in a pre-emptive military strike against Iran to
fulfill God&#039;s plan for both Israel and the West....&quot; Which Bible
verse inspired him to utter this - the one that says &quot;Love ye your
enemies&quot; or the one saying &quot;Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith
the Lord&quot;?
    It would appear that Hagee, Falwell and other pretrib rapture
merchandisers and Christian Zionists are trying to identify with
the predicted group whose love will &quot;wax cold&quot; (a la Matthew 24:12)
during what Hagee etc. see in the future as earth&#039;s darkest days!

    (The now famous &quot;rapture&quot; view promoted by politics-loving American
evangelicals is related to various topics. If you would like to
publish the above non-copyrighted paper, feel free to even change
the title to &quot;Armageddonism and Politics&quot; or &quot;The History of Dispensationalism&quot;
or anything else.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[I saw this web article a short time ago. Enjoy! - - - Jane]</p>
<p> ROOTS OF (WARLIKE) CHRISTIAN ZIONISM<br />
         (or, It&#8217;s the Rapture, Stupid !)</p>
<p>              by Dave MacPherson</p>
<p>    First, let&#8217;s get something straight. Many conservative<br />
evangelicals in America are not longing for the &#8220;world&#8217;s end&#8221; or<br />
&#8220;judgment day&#8221; or a &#8220;millennium&#8221; or an &#8220;antichrist&#8221; or even the<br />
&#8220;second coming.&#8221;<br />
    Although these phrases are in their theology books, the same<br />
books emphasize what they are waiting (and would almost die) for:<br />
the &#8220;any-moment pretribulation rapture&#8221; which is expected several<br />
years ahead of the second coming and most assuredly BEFORE a future<br />
&#8220;great tribulation&#8221;!<br />
    Hal Lindsey, the big rapture guru of the late 20th century,<br />
ended his bestselling book &#8220;The Late Great Planet Earth&#8221; with the<br />
word &#8220;MARANATHA&#8221; which pretribulation rapturists know is a code<br />
word for their rapture. And the same literal removal from earth at<br />
any moment lurks in Lindsey&#8217;s other writings.<br />
   Tim LaHaye, the current rapture tycoon whose &#8220;Left Behind&#8221;<br />
bonanza has left even Lindsey behind, knows how to milk the<br />
rapturized masses. After his 1992 pro-rapture book &#8220;No Fear of the<br />
Storm&#8221; was published, it was revealed that he had sloppily omitted<br />
48 words when airing a brief 19th century document &#8211; hardly good<br />
publicity! After sales slowed down, it was re-issued as &#8220;Rapture<br />
Under Attack&#8221; (with the same 48 missing words) and appeared to the<br />
public to be a new book. But not even the title change seemed to<br />
help things, and merchandiser LaHaye knew it was time to come up<br />
with some other titles that could further his rapture obsession.<br />
    And Jerry Falwell never seems to miss an opportunity, when<br />
preaching, to remind his audience that he most certainly believes<br />
in the &#8220;pretribulational rapture&#8221; view.<br />
    I can almost believe that the middle name of many Christian<br />
Right leaders is &#8220;Rapture&#8221;!<br />
    When checking pre-19th century prophetic development, one<br />
finds that &#8220;dispensational&#8221; thinking as well as Christian Zionistic<br />
roots had been in existence long before the emergence of<br />
pretribulation rapturism. Even the prophetic word &#8220;rapture&#8221; had<br />
been in print well before the 19th century &#8211; but always in<br />
reference to only an after-the-tribulation coming and never to a<br />
pretribulation coming.<br />
    Many are still unaware that the pretrib rapture idea was first<br />
publicly aired in the fall of 1830 in &#8220;The Morning Watch&#8221;<br />
(hereafter: TMW), a little-known quarterly journal published by the<br />
Irvingites (followers of famed London preacher Edward Irving) from<br />
1829 to 1833 in Britain. Not only was this innovative publication<br />
years ahead of John Darby and his Plymouth Brethren colleagues,<br />
rapturally speaking, but in it we find shocking militancy that can<br />
be observed today in Christian Zionist preachers like John Hagee<br />
and Jerry Falwell.<br />
    As early as the September 1830 issue of TMW (pp. 510-514) a<br />
writer declared that only worthy Christians (which he labeled<br />
&#8220;Philadelphia&#8221;) would be raptured before &#8220;the great tribulation&#8221;<br />
and less worthy ones (labeled &#8220;Laodicea&#8221;) would be left on earth.<br />
    The September 1832 issue of the same journal (pp. 6-7) saw<br />
&#8220;Jews&#8221; as well as the less worthy Christians left behind.<br />
    But the March 1833 issue (p. 147) said that only &#8220;the Jews&#8221;<br />
would be excluded from the rapture.<br />
    So within a short period of time the Irvingites, while<br />
following the same Scriptures, revealed their innate<br />
anti-Jewishness by switching from a &#8220;church/church&#8221; dichotomy to a<br />
&#8220;church/Israel&#8221; dichotomy after convincing themselves that only<br />
&#8220;the Jews&#8221; would deserve a future tribulation!<br />
    After their adoption of an escapist view that no organized<br />
church had ever taught before 1830, the same early pretrib<br />
rapturists, feeling superior, began exhibiting some vices that<br />
often come to powerless persons who suddenly obtain power &#8211; vices<br />
like pride, hatred and persecution of others, playing God, and so<br />
on.<br />
    Sounding like Hagee and other warlike warmongers, TMW<br />
expressed even more delusional, rapture-inspired fantasies:<br />
    The September 1830 issue (p. 514), looking ahead to the hoped<br />
for &#8220;great escape,&#8221; declared that the raptured believers would then<br />
collectively become &#8220;the victorious ministerer of the great<br />
tribulation&#8221; upon those left behind!<br />
    In March of 1832 the same Irvingite journal (p. 3) taught that<br />
the &#8220;vials&#8221; of wrath in the book of Revelation &#8220;shall be poured out<br />
by the risen [raptured] saints&#8221;!<br />
    And TMW in September 1832 (p. 27) went even further and<br />
announced that the collective group of raptured ones will &#8220;wield<br />
the thunders of its power against the dragon [Satan] and his<br />
angels, and cast them down from heaven&#8221;!<br />
    Note that these fanatics were more than willing to be the<br />
&#8220;chosen ones&#8221; to pour out tribulation and wrath on those not worthy<br />
to be &#8220;chosen&#8221;: the Jews.<br />
    (I&#8217;m glad to report that Southeastern Baptist Theological<br />
Seminary in North Carolina is now the only North American<br />
institution that contains a complete set of every issue of &#8220;The<br />
Morning Watch.&#8221; I recently gave SEBTS my 35-year collection of rare<br />
material including those issues and Robert Norton&#8217;s valuable 1861<br />
book.)<br />
    We&#8217;ve just had a glimpse of vengeful and power-crazy<br />
fanaticism within the very earliest pretrib rapture group. But<br />
where in the Bible did those deluded Britishers find support for<br />
such &#8220;rapture rage&#8221;? And where are the followers of Christ<br />
commanded to pick up a sword and conquer or convert non-believers<br />
with it &#8211; or even support such sword-bearers? Why have so many<br />
Christian Zionists, who seemingly give more attention to<br />
governments than to their Gospel, turned the Great Commission into<br />
the Great Commotion?<br />
    Many of the above historical details are in my 300-page book<br />
&#8220;The Rapture Plot,&#8221; the most complete and documented history of the<br />
176-year-old pretribulation rapture merchandised today by Hagee,<br />
LaHaye, Falwell, Lindsey, Swaggart, Van Impe etc. for their pet<br />
agendas &#8211; an escapist view never taught by any church for 1800<br />
years! If you don&#8217;t have time for my book, I invite you to read my<br />
internet items including &#8220;Pretrib Rapture Diehards,&#8221; &#8220;Deceiving and<br />
Being Deceived,&#8221; &#8220;Famous Rapture Watchers,&#8221; &#8220;Thomas Ice<br />
(Bloopers),&#8221; &#8220;Appendix F: Thou Shalt Not Steal,&#8221; &#8220;The Rapture Index<br />
(Mad Theology),&#8221; &#8220;Pretrib Hypocrisy,&#8221; and &#8220;Pretrib Rapture Dishonesty.&#8221;<br />
BTW, my book &#8220;The Rapture Plot&#8221; is available at online bookstores.<br />
    Do Hagee and his fellow preachers really love Jewish persons<br />
as much as they say they do? Then why do they pervert Scripture to<br />
try to get themselves raptured off earth before their future and<br />
final &#8220;tribulation&#8221; instead of wanting to remain on earth during<br />
that period to minister love to ALL of earth&#8217;s citizens?<br />
    Hagee stated on July 19, 2006 that &#8220;The United States must<br />
join Israel in a pre-emptive military strike against Iran to<br />
fulfill God&#8217;s plan for both Israel and the West&#8230;.&#8221; Which Bible<br />
verse inspired him to utter this &#8211; the one that says &#8220;Love ye your<br />
enemies&#8221; or the one saying &#8220;Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith<br />
the Lord&#8221;?<br />
    It would appear that Hagee, Falwell and other pretrib rapture<br />
merchandisers and Christian Zionists are trying to identify with<br />
the predicted group whose love will &#8220;wax cold&#8221; (a la Matthew 24:12)<br />
during what Hagee etc. see in the future as earth&#8217;s darkest days!</p>
<p>    (The now famous &#8220;rapture&#8221; view promoted by politics-loving American<br />
evangelicals is related to various topics. If you would like to<br />
publish the above non-copyrighted paper, feel free to even change<br />
the title to &#8220;Armageddonism and Politics&#8221; or &#8220;The History of Dispensationalism&#8221;<br />
or anything else.)</p>
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		<title>Comment on Death of a Dispensationalist by Dave James</title>
		<link>http://kevinjthompson.wordpress.com/2009/11/25/death-of-a-dispensationalist/#comment-2547</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 18:45:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kevinjthompson.wordpress.com/?p=1269#comment-2547</guid>
		<description>Kevin,

There are clear and specific answers to your questions. Unfortunately, it seems that even in your own mind your conclusions are based on caricatures and straw-man argumentation. I was saved 25 years ago at age 26 and know some of the best dispensational theologians in the world (including Dr. Ryrie) - and I have never once heard any of them suggest that we &quot;curse the darkness&quot; or that we shouldn&#039;t engage our culture. That is just not true - yet by singling out Dr. Ryrie (and his &quot;ilk&quot; - which is an very derogatory term) and talking about &quot;cursing the darkness&quot; you give the impression that this is what he believes and teaches. That is both misleading and I would suggest dishonest.

The argument against dispensationalism based on it being &quot;relatively new&quot; is so weak it doesn&#039;t even rise to the level of being an argument at any level. (Please see my blog on this charge at http://www.biblicalintegrity.org/blog/?p=245)

Concerning Israel and the Church:  It isn&#039;t as if dispensationalists have never thought about the passages talking about Israel and the Church or that they aren&#039;t familiar with the passages you cite and haven&#039;t written extensively on them. It isn&#039;t quite so simple as it might seem to someone who reads your blog.

I understand that there are some who hold to dispensationalism who make unfortunate statements, but those do not invalidate dispensationalism as a system. Dispensationalism can only be judged on the basis of biblical exposition. I would suggest that do this if we are going to argue for or against any theology or theological system.

There has been much excellent work done by many godly scholars do are firmly dispensationalists - because it isn&#039;t so much about dispensational theology - which is only a result - but it is about how and why one arrives there through a biblical hermeneutic.

Dave James
www.biblicalintegrity.org</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kevin,</p>
<p>There are clear and specific answers to your questions. Unfortunately, it seems that even in your own mind your conclusions are based on caricatures and straw-man argumentation. I was saved 25 years ago at age 26 and know some of the best dispensational theologians in the world (including Dr. Ryrie) &#8211; and I have never once heard any of them suggest that we &#8220;curse the darkness&#8221; or that we shouldn&#8217;t engage our culture. That is just not true &#8211; yet by singling out Dr. Ryrie (and his &#8220;ilk&#8221; &#8211; which is an very derogatory term) and talking about &#8220;cursing the darkness&#8221; you give the impression that this is what he believes and teaches. That is both misleading and I would suggest dishonest.</p>
<p>The argument against dispensationalism based on it being &#8220;relatively new&#8221; is so weak it doesn&#8217;t even rise to the level of being an argument at any level. (Please see my blog on this charge at <a href="http://www.biblicalintegrity.org/blog/?p=245)" rel="nofollow">http://www.biblicalintegrity.org/blog/?p=245)</a></p>
<p>Concerning Israel and the Church:  It isn&#8217;t as if dispensationalists have never thought about the passages talking about Israel and the Church or that they aren&#8217;t familiar with the passages you cite and haven&#8217;t written extensively on them. It isn&#8217;t quite so simple as it might seem to someone who reads your blog.</p>
<p>I understand that there are some who hold to dispensationalism who make unfortunate statements, but those do not invalidate dispensationalism as a system. Dispensationalism can only be judged on the basis of biblical exposition. I would suggest that do this if we are going to argue for or against any theology or theological system.</p>
<p>There has been much excellent work done by many godly scholars do are firmly dispensationalists &#8211; because it isn&#8217;t so much about dispensational theology &#8211; which is only a result &#8211; but it is about how and why one arrives there through a biblical hermeneutic.</p>
<p>Dave James<br />
<a href="http://www.biblicalintegrity.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.biblicalintegrity.org</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Should Christians be involved in Politics? by Kevin Thompson</title>
		<link>http://kevinjthompson.wordpress.com/2009/11/14/should-christians-be-involved-in-politics/#comment-2544</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Thompson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 23:37:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kevinjthompson.wordpress.com/?p=1256#comment-2544</guid>
		<description>Ben,  I agree that too many churches hide behind their 501c3 status to avoid doing thier God-ordained duty.  But not all do.  Some preachers just last year decided to test the boundries of their status by even officially endorsing candidates from the pulpit.  I have a pastor who is not afraid to comment on political issues when the situation calls for it.  What I really appreciate about him is that he is balenced in this issue, calling conservatives on the carpet when they need it and warning all Christians not to get too wrapped up in doomsday scenarios and trust in the sovereign hand ogf God.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ben,  I agree that too many churches hide behind their 501c3 status to avoid doing thier God-ordained duty.  But not all do.  Some preachers just last year decided to test the boundries of their status by even officially endorsing candidates from the pulpit.  I have a pastor who is not afraid to comment on political issues when the situation calls for it.  What I really appreciate about him is that he is balenced in this issue, calling conservatives on the carpet when they need it and warning all Christians not to get too wrapped up in doomsday scenarios and trust in the sovereign hand ogf God.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Should Christians be involved in Politics? by Ben Hoffman</title>
		<link>http://kevinjthompson.wordpress.com/2009/11/14/should-christians-be-involved-in-politics/#comment-2543</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Hoffman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 23:23:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kevinjthompson.wordpress.com/?p=1256#comment-2543</guid>
		<description>Christians are already allowed to be involved in politics. They just have to give up their tax exempt status when they do so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Christians are already allowed to be involved in politics. They just have to give up their tax exempt status when they do so.</p>
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		<title>Comment on A Two-Party Death Grip by alexhiggins732</title>
		<link>http://kevinjthompson.wordpress.com/2008/02/16/a-two-party-death-grip/#comment-2539</link>
		<dc:creator>alexhiggins732</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 10:49:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kevinjthompson.wordpress.com/2008/02/16/a-two-party-death-grip/#comment-2539</guid>
		<description>Regardless of who Chris Daggett hurts, Daggett is not a spoiler and he can win.

Daggett has broken 20 percent and can win. The Washington Post says at 20% there is a path for Daggett to win and political analysts say with 25% in the polls Daggett can win.

 Now its a matter of getting that last 100,000 votes to get Daggett in a position to win.

To do that we are reaching out to voters that want to Vote for Daggett but are afraid a vote for Daggett is a wasted vote. So…

&lt;b&gt;The I&#039;ll vote for Daggett Pledge:&lt;/b&gt;

&quot;I want to vote for Chris Daggett, but only if he has a real chance of winning. He needs pledges from 100,000 people like me. I don&#039;t want to wait til Election Day to find out that those votes existed, but we were all afraid to cast them. So, I&#039;m signing my name below, with my address to prove that I&#039;m real, and pledging that if 100,000 people like me sign up, I will vote for Daggett.&quot;

&lt;a href=&quot;http://chris-daggett.alexanderhiggins.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Click Here To Take the I&#039;ll Vote For Daggett Pledge&lt;/a&gt;

Spread the word about this pledge, so we can bring an end to politics as usual.

The broken and corrupt two party system threatens us all, event if we are not from NJ. Take a stand.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regardless of who Chris Daggett hurts, Daggett is not a spoiler and he can win.</p>
<p>Daggett has broken 20 percent and can win. The Washington Post says at 20% there is a path for Daggett to win and political analysts say with 25% in the polls Daggett can win.</p>
<p> Now its a matter of getting that last 100,000 votes to get Daggett in a position to win.</p>
<p>To do that we are reaching out to voters that want to Vote for Daggett but are afraid a vote for Daggett is a wasted vote. So…</p>
<p><b>The I&#8217;ll vote for Daggett Pledge:</b></p>
<p>&#8220;I want to vote for Chris Daggett, but only if he has a real chance of winning. He needs pledges from 100,000 people like me. I don&#8217;t want to wait til Election Day to find out that those votes existed, but we were all afraid to cast them. So, I&#8217;m signing my name below, with my address to prove that I&#8217;m real, and pledging that if 100,000 people like me sign up, I will vote for Daggett.&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://chris-daggett.alexanderhiggins.com/" rel="nofollow">Click Here To Take the I&#8217;ll Vote For Daggett Pledge</a></p>
<p>Spread the word about this pledge, so we can bring an end to politics as usual.</p>
<p>The broken and corrupt two party system threatens us all, event if we are not from NJ. Take a stand.</p>
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		<title>Comment on About by Zach Mabry</title>
		<link>http://kevinjthompson.wordpress.com/about/#comment-2491</link>
		<dc:creator>Zach Mabry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 13:35:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-2491</guid>
		<description>Hey Kevin, 

I was really encouraged by your philosophy of Christian Education. I found it while preparing a talk for the Florida League of Christian Schools which I will present next month. I work at a Christian camp in NC and God has given us a heart of love for Christian schools. We offer retreats specifically focused on Christian schools throughout the year. I just wanted to let you know that there are others like-minded with you in your philosophy. Keep up the good work.

Under His Mercy,

Zach</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Kevin, </p>
<p>I was really encouraged by your philosophy of Christian Education. I found it while preparing a talk for the Florida League of Christian Schools which I will present next month. I work at a Christian camp in NC and God has given us a heart of love for Christian schools. We offer retreats specifically focused on Christian schools throughout the year. I just wanted to let you know that there are others like-minded with you in your philosophy. Keep up the good work.</p>
<p>Under His Mercy,</p>
<p>Zach</p>
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		<title>Comment on Am I Concerned about the President Addressing School Children? by Renée</title>
		<link>http://kevinjthompson.wordpress.com/2009/09/07/am-i-concerned-about-the-president-addressing-school-children/#comment-2490</link>
		<dc:creator>Renée</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 00:52:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kevinjthompson.wordpress.com/?p=1213#comment-2490</guid>
		<description>Kevin, I really appreciate and agree with your logical and well thought approach. I also appreciate that the President released the transcript of the speech ahead of time. I am hoping to show the video to my class in the next couple of weeks and use it as a writing response assignment. How else can I teach my 5th grade class to respect the office of President and to listen and analyze what even the President says? Like you, I don&#039;t typically show video in my class that I haven&#039;t seen first, even when it&#039;s the President, but I do want my students to understand that we don&#039;t have to agree with everything the President stands for to listen to him and agree with him when we discern that he is saying correct things.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kevin, I really appreciate and agree with your logical and well thought approach. I also appreciate that the President released the transcript of the speech ahead of time. I am hoping to show the video to my class in the next couple of weeks and use it as a writing response assignment. How else can I teach my 5th grade class to respect the office of President and to listen and analyze what even the President says? Like you, I don&#8217;t typically show video in my class that I haven&#8217;t seen first, even when it&#8217;s the President, but I do want my students to understand that we don&#8217;t have to agree with everything the President stands for to listen to him and agree with him when we discern that he is saying correct things.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Am I Concerned about the President Addressing School Children? by Michael Carl</title>
		<link>http://kevinjthompson.wordpress.com/2009/09/07/am-i-concerned-about-the-president-addressing-school-children/#comment-2489</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Carl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Sep 2009 02:05:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kevinjthompson.wordpress.com/?p=1213#comment-2489</guid>
		<description>Yes, the president should have the option of addressing the nation&#039;s school kids to inspire them.

No, the president should not attempt to politicise the event, as we know Obama will.  

The galling thing is the curriculum our unconstitutional federal Department of Education tried to foist on our nation&#039;s schools.

The other galling thing is the hypocrisy of the Democrats who cried foul when George H.  W. Bush did the same thing.  They asserted the wishy-washy, uninspiring Bush the senior was trying to recruit the kids into being little Republicans.  Now that it&#039;s their commie stooge in the White House, the Sociocrats think the address is wonderful.

I&#039;m thinking of keeping my kids home on Tuesday.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, the president should have the option of addressing the nation&#8217;s school kids to inspire them.</p>
<p>No, the president should not attempt to politicise the event, as we know Obama will.  </p>
<p>The galling thing is the curriculum our unconstitutional federal Department of Education tried to foist on our nation&#8217;s schools.</p>
<p>The other galling thing is the hypocrisy of the Democrats who cried foul when George H.  W. Bush did the same thing.  They asserted the wishy-washy, uninspiring Bush the senior was trying to recruit the kids into being little Republicans.  Now that it&#8217;s their commie stooge in the White House, the Sociocrats think the address is wonderful.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m thinking of keeping my kids home on Tuesday.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Last of The Kennedy Dynasty by Richard Nordstrom</title>
		<link>http://kevinjthompson.wordpress.com/2009/01/11/the-last-of-the-kennedy-dynasty/#comment-2483</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Nordstrom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Aug 2009 06:37:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kevinjthompson.wordpress.com/?p=811#comment-2483</guid>
		<description>Your summary is very interesting.  Don&#039;t I recall some sort of scandal about an attempted rape in Florida?  Did he ever &quot;practice law&quot;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your summary is very interesting.  Don&#8217;t I recall some sort of scandal about an attempted rape in Florida?  Did he ever &#8220;practice law&#8221;?</p>
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